Think I got ripped off!

[Rockmonkey69]

I bought a evo 8 fq400 MR (No. 4 of 100) and was looking to get some more power and having heard some good feedback about Hayes engineering in Erith I went to meet them, they claimed to be one of the best in the business and upon meeting the owner Bob, he seemed genuine and friendly at first, but alot of money later and 2 blown engines on he has started to become very rude and obnoxious, even on a number of occassions ringing my workplace demanding more money, I was slightly confused because I always paid top dollar for parts having never skimped on anything and paid him in advance for any work that needed doing or parts that needed to be ordered. Upon confronting him about this he insisted he was merely ringing to ask if I wanted to order more parts for the car - not what my colleague had told me.


Below is a link to the build from their website:
http://www.hayesdynotech.co.uk/galle...Kit/index.html


Anyway below are some of the spec of the engine as built by Hayes engineering:
4g63 2.0 bored to 2.1 with 85.5mm CP pistons
Brian Crower 272 cams and valve set
Upgraded hydraulic valve lifter
ARP head bolts
ARP crank bolts
Cosworth headgasket
Fadiza adjustable cam pulleys
Port matched and polished intake and exhaust side
Walbro 255lph fuel pump
1000cc RC injectors
AMS GT3076R Turbo kit
HKS custom downpipe and decat
HKS Super silent catback system
AMS intercooler
Mishimoto aluminium radiator
Alcon 6 paddle ceramic clutch
Alcon 6 pot big brake kit with ds2500 pads
Upgraded kevlar cam belt
Air-con delete

The car is running Motec management and some other mods I may have left out, all in all the whole build cost quite a large sum of money.

I was then charged £500 for the rolling road to run the car in and £1000 for the running in map. I later found out how bad the mapping was, it left the garage worse than a base map, the cold start was awful and it took 4 attempts to start the car, the car would then hunt for a long time until warm. I was not concerned about the loss of power as I was told the boost was going to be kept low until it was run in. Little did I know the £1000 I paid only covered the running in map that was put on not the final map I would later be required to do...

While I was driving it I noticed that eventually the car couldn't even find idle and the cold start problem remained the same. They blamed these problems on a bad stepper motor and a bad start motor. So I paid for them to buy the part and fit it. Fixed the idling issue but the cold start was exactly the same. Which leaves me to believe it is a problem with the mapping.


So a few months down the line I took the car back to them for the final map at another expense of £500 to which they later said should be a bit more as it took an hour longer than they had anticipated. I got the car back and have to say it is awful, the standard fq400 setup was definately faster. The car as it is now feels laggy, it feels like it's lacking top end and it struggles to start. I asked about the power (or lack of) and they simply said my coilpacks needed to be upgraded to produce over 400 bhp and they recommended Sparktec at a cost of £600 + £40 labour to change my coilpacks, I refused as it was beginning to get silly so I purchased a new set of standard coilpacks and gapped plugs from themselves. Still no result and now they are saying I need a larger exhaust as it was too restrictive to get over 400 bhp and that I may also need an externally gated system. Since then I have stopped all communication with them, below are the dyno graphs and a video of my cold start.


Dynos were done with shell v-power with ambient temperature of 17 degrees celsius:

Please note that prior to these print outs the car only made circa 300 bhp when dyno'ed in 4th gear and whilst the dyno for these printouts says the power runs were done in 4th gear, when I approached the car while they were doing the run I noticed it was actually in 3rd gear, not 4th!

I know for certain the car is not making 400 bhp or even close!
On top of this, it appear the engine is running a bit lean at ~2000rpm and far too rich everywhere else. I also expected a bit more power especially as Im pushing over 2 bars of boost through a gt3076r


To finish it off here is a video of the cold start (my valve cover is of a different colour but that's because Dynotech has gone and changed the colour of my valve cover a number of times for whatever reason):

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImKoQKZdIFI]Eco 8 fq400 bad cold start - YouTube[/ame]


I get the feeling the timing is too far advanced and this is the result.

Just wished I had avoided dealing with Dynotech from the start! I hope that readers may learn of this god forsaken place that calls themself a tuning garage!
I forgot to add, since I have got my car off the dyno, the AYC and the ABS lights are all on, while the ABS has turned itself off the AYC has remained on. I'm hoping that a quick bleed will fix the problem and they haven't messed about with the car while it was there.

For anyone who is curious as to whether this is just a remote case, it is not. I have found a few impreza owners who have also lost thousands to Bob to Hayes engineering (Dynotech) who had also been led to buying parts which are not necessary and also ended up with a blown engine.

 

[B6lee]

Shocking !! I be taking it straight to a tuner that knows what they are doing cos clearly they don't have a clue as anyone can see by the afr reading on the graph

Should be around 11:9 and once on boost should hold that position right through to the red line.

I'd be looking for compensation too cos it doesn't take hours to map a car if you know what your doing that is so the money they have charged for this is just wrong.

I'd be going straight to another recommended tuner and getting them to do a full report on what's been done and what needs doing with costs

 

[Rockmonkey69]

I honestly don't think I'm going to see a penny of my money back, pretty sure they spent all my money already, the last time I went down there to see Bob - the owner of the place, he had a great big chunky solid gold chain around his neck like some sort of rap artist. Definately didn't seem appropriate that's for sure! He even asked me to bring a drink down for them next time!

They took quite a large sum of money, you have to remember the engine blew up on their rollers before so I've effectively had them build 2 fq400 to this spec. Even the turbo blew! First thing they said when it blew was how would you like to pay for the damage to our dyno?

I don't think their mapper knows anything about mapping, he told me mapping motec is a rare talent that few can do, but I'm almost certain that the right base map would get a better cold start and be safer than what I've been handed.

I just wish I had come on the forums to browse the traders section before going with Hayes engineering (Dynotech) they are most unprofessional in the way they conduct themselves, especially so when it comes to prices. Ray the mechanic would tell me the labour cost of something would be £800 then Bob the owner would say: shouldn't it be £1000? Ray would then say might have been £1100 and it's left no question in my mind now that they are just a bunch of cowboys out for nothing but money! They care not for the results or customer satisfaction!

 

[gooner8]

shocking! Get it to a proper tuner buddy!

 

[B6lee]

I'd take them to court !!

 

[gooner8]

+1 on that

 

[fq-craigus]

where abouts are you based mate, we could reccomend a decent place for you, i would get the car along to someone proper pretty sharpish, last thing you want if its running lean is the same thing that happened to b6lee's car it caused det on the pistons.

thats shocking mate, all that monies, and the deception.

if you still have all the recipts i would take advice on whether its worth persuing em

so how is the car running now? is that video recent. it sounds like my type r did after standing for 6 months when i lost my licence and my idle control valve got sticky but that sorted its self out after a good run

 

[foxy lady x]

What's even more shocking is you had a 400 from the start so you should be getting in the region of 400 give or take a little before any map, and you had all that work done just for an extra 25bhp !! That's a blatant rip off in itself, no remap should cost a £1000 nor should it cost you £500 to dyno it maximum would be about £50 !

As Lee said I'd take it to a decent turner there's plenty on here, and a decent mec also plenty on here, and get them to log down everything thats gone wrong with the car as a result of another company then sue the hell out of that company, and I'd also ring trading standards.
Also keep everything receipts, invoices the, even call logs, the lot it will all be shown as evidence in the claims courts and you will have a greater chance of winning, although anyone reading this can clearly see you have been wronged.

But seriously don't sit back and let them get away with it, they owe you alot of money and I wouldn't let them get away with it.

Welcome along by the way, sorry it wasn't under better circumstances :sad: but on the plus side you will be looked after on here

 

[Rockmonkey69]

Thanks for your support, I'm really struggling to see this through now after all this drama dealing with said company and have even considered selling the car, it's absolutely draining having to constantly chase them up while holding down my job.

I doubt I would see a penny back from them though, they never once produced a receipt for any part ordered or work done to the car and when asked they always tell me they have forgotten and they will produce it in a bit but never do, which I thought nothing of at the time because I had no reason to doubt them at first and I figured so long as they delivered the goods that's all that mattered. I certainly won't be bringing anything back to them.

The video was taken recently, it was the result after the most recent map by Hayes engineering and just to re-illiterate, they claim this map is final, it is perfect, it has resolved all my issues such as cold start and everything else. The car had not been sitting for any period of time prior to this video, in fact it was taken on the same day I got the car back from them.

I'm based in SE London/Kent, I been told Owen developments is a good place to take my car but I'm not sure if they map motec.

 

[micevo]

...

 

[evogeof]

Not quite the full story as I've read the traders reply

 

[RsvRob]

I don't know what to say
I'm completely gobsmacked at what RIP OFF a price and service you have been given and the excuses from them
Starting with near on 400bhp to have all that work done and only gain 25bhp .... Unbelievable

 

[evogeof]

Before we all jump on the band wagon and rip a trader to bits go over the road and read the traders reply to this story then have your say

 

[B6lee]

If your car is a genuine FQ400 then correct me if I'm wrong but I'm sure they already come with forged internals ?? And an Owen development turbo and possibly a motec ecu ??

 

[fq-craigus]

Before we all jump on the band wagon and rip a trader to bits go over the road and read the traders reply to this story then have your say

have u got a post name or link? i can never find anything over there

 

[foxy lady x]

Before we all jump on the band wagon and rip a trader to bits go over the road and read the traders reply to this story then have your say

If he had said the "trader" was on the MLR and that it was being talked about over there then fair enough, but he came on as a newbie saying he felt he had been wronged, so people are gonna have their views and opinions from only reading what he has said.

I'm not on the MLR and quite frankly am glad cos all I've heard is this trader is crap and this thread has been closed, to me it sounds like it's being run by a bunch of stuck up middle aged jobs worths with IQ's of 5yr olds, cos as soon as they hear something they don't like they delete it or close it.
Most adults should have the ability to accept banter and difference of opinion, no one is gonna like the same as the next person that's what make us all different.

 

[evogeof]

have u got a post name or link? i can never find anything over there

Name of the thread is.

Hayes engineering (Dynotech) - rubbish! It's in trader discussion section

 

[evo arm's m7960]

there are always 2 sides , and bob at dynotech seams to be the victim if you read his reply !!!! :O(

 

[Rockmonkey69]

Not quite the full story as I've read the traders reply

Still not the truth I'm afraid, I know of atleast 3 other customers who were either unsatisfied or had their engine blown on standalone management after being mapped at Bob's.
As for what he claims, it is all lies. I don't understand how he can sweep aside everything that had been said by simply stating it's a third party that mapped the car. The final bill for the map came down to £500 for the rolling road which went to Bob and £500 to the mapper who was brought in and recommended by Bob, whom he is a close acquaintant with. He let the car leave producing the power it did and no the 425 it made was with a good coilpack taken from another customer's evo in the garage without his knowledge. It made ~300 mark with the bad coilpack. Any reputable tuner would not know looking at the graphs and the result, it is embarassing.

He also denies having ever worked on my AYC, this too is not true, he serviced my AYC and I paid for this too. Of course it would be easy for him to say he never did as he never produced a single receipt to me. For anything.
In addition to this, everything had been paid in full regardless of what he said (most of the time paid in advance) because he had always told me: "I'm sorry matey my account is low" His account is always low apparently. Which I'm not surprised by because most if not all his payment from me is made in cash which he loves, I can only presume that he avoids the tax man as a result.

Bob is sly and should not be dealt with. I was recently approached by a local garage that had a hawk eye machine where my car was taken to for the tracking, I paid Bob who was supposed to pay the third party for the tracking, but I had to find out from them that Bob never paid the third party garage for the tracking and had in fact pocketed the money himself explaining to the garage that I had not paid Bob for the tracking. Complete and utter theft.

And I could even forgive him for all that had been mentioned if he actually cared even remotely about the figures. He had not explained his reasoning behind telling me to upgrade from the HKS system - he had incorrectly informed me that I would be lucky to see 400 from the HKS system as it was too restrictive.

Ontop of this with the money spent and the spec of the engine, a gt3076r running 1.8 bar or 2.0 bar boost regardless should not be struggling to make more power. The mapper whom Bob recommended so highly has no idea what he is doing and from the dyno graphs it is clear to see that the air fuel ratio is indeed absolutely rubbish even with the good coilpack he had taken from the customer's car.

The cold start is supposed to be completely fixed with the most recent map, the youtube video I have attached on the first page is of the car's cold start after I got the car back, judge for yourself whether or not the cold start is perfect. (Remember this video was of the 4th attempt to start the car)
I have been through hell and back with these lot, it was so redicuolous at one point that I could not turn the car off when fueling up simply because it would not start back up again! It would take 5-10 mins! It's no wonder that the starter motor died! Also the stepper motor had been replaced, the video is the result of having both the starter motor and stepper replaced and the final map done!

Ontop of this I do not approve of the way the engine was run-in, it was run in on semi-synthetic oil from the start! I'm certain it should have seen nothing but mineral oil to help the rings bed in.

The reason I've not replied in the trader's section and I'm sure Bob is aware of this is because I've not enough posts to post in there. I have also since found 3 scoobys which have complained about Bob's work and how he had tried to have their pants down. In fact he blew up one of their engines! The best bit is, they have been kind enough to borrow me their dyno sheets and a video too. I will be posting this up shortly.

 

[evogeof]

That's some comeback to the thread. I can't judge bob as I only use 1 garage for my car and he's not going to get my car wrong.